Inside the Aquarium of the Boardwalk: Life Support Lessons with Alex Hunter
What does it take to build and operate the life support systems for one of America's newest public aquariums? In this episode of INFLOW, hosts Joe Arlotto and Dr. Jeff Keaffaber are joined by Alex Hunter, Director of Life Support at the Aquarium of the Boardwalk, for an in-depth conversation about launching a modern aquarium from the ground up. Alex shares his career journey, the challenges of commissioning a brand-new life support system, and the lessons learned from balancing innovative design with the day-to-day realities of aquarium operations.
The discussion explores aquarium filtration, water quality management, life support engineering, startup commissioning, equipment selection, troubleshooting, and the importance of collaboration between designers, contractors, and operators. Whether you're an aquarium professional, life support system engineer, aquatic animal specialist, or simply fascinated by the science behind world-class aquariums, this episode offers practical insights into creating stable, healthy environments for aquatic life and the people who care for it.
In this episode, you'll learn about:
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Launching the Aquarium of the Boardwalk
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Life support system (LSS) design and commissioning
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Aquarium filtration and water quality management
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Startup challenges and operational lessons
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Collaboration between engineers and aquarium operators
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Best practices for maintaining healthy aquatic habitats
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Career advice for aspiring LSS professionals
(3:14) - Meet Alex Hunter (6:55) - Moving Up by Moving On (10:18) - Mirage to Mandalay Bay (11:41) - Mammal vs Fish Systems (13:23) - Startup Staffing Realities (16:14) - Turnover and Training Legacy (19:07) - Aquarium of the Boardwalk Systems (21:59) - Power Failures and Backup Generator (26:28) - Filtration System Layout (27:38) - Drum Filters Deep Dive 3 (32:34) - Sand Filters Backwash (36:36) - CapEx and Risk Mitigation (40:18) - Isolation Valve Project (42:35) - AALSO Community Impact (46:03) - Certification Career Ladder (47:35) - Advice for New Operators
Thanks to Our SponsorsThis episode of INFLOW is made possible by our sponsors:
MDM Pumps – A trusted leader in high-performance pumps engineered for demanding aquatic life support applications. MDM Pumps delivers reliable, energy-efficient solutions that help aquariums, zoos, and aquatic facilities maintain exceptional water quality.
Telchine – Providing advanced automation and control solutions for aquarium life support systems, Telchine helps operators monitor, optimize, and manage critical LSS processes with precision, reliability, and real-time insights.
Subscribe to INFLOW for conversations with the leading experts shaping the future of aquatic animal life support systems, aquarium engineering, filtration technology, water quality science, and aquatic habitat design.
00:00:05
Greetings all.
00:00:05
Joe Arlotto here with Dr. Jeff Keaffaber.
00:00:08
Welcome to InFlow, the podcast where we discuss all things related
00:00:12
to aquatic animal life support.
00:00:15
This show is sponsored by MDM Pumps and Telchine Energy Technologies.
00:00:21
You can learn more about our sponsors by clicking on the sponsors
00:00:24
page at inflowlsspodcast.com.
00:00:29
So Dr. Jeff, I was reviewing our guest list the other day.
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I mean, we're coming up on 50 shows, which boggles the mind really.
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And I was looking back at our guests, and, you know, when it comes to operators or
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even vendors really, you know, some have stayed in one place, becoming the person
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at their facility who knows every pipe, where every conduit is, and others have
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made it a point to move around, maybe taking, you know, working at multiple
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facilities and getting a more varied knowledge of equipment and systems.
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You know, I mean, even today's sponsor's Ben at MDM, he's been at MDM, you
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know, a long time, a family business.
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He knows the business and he knows pumps inside and out.
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And then there's Rob Turnbull, who has reworked himself a few times at,
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as an operator and then as an ozone technician, and now the owner of Telchine.
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So what's your take on change, Dr. Jeff?
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Joe, I've been thinking about this topic, and what I see in the industry
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today and, and even internally at my company, is that there is a need in the
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industry for a career ladder to be in place so there's a way for operators
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to advance up the chain, um, whether that's specializing in CapEx planning,
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new projects, day-to-day operation, dive operations, whatever the case may be.
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So we have various niches within our industry and ways in which
00:02:09
to cr- climb that career ladder.
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And I would just take it one more step, and that is, with all the experience
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and all the institutional knowledge that we have in our industry, it's
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important for aquariums, zoos, y- marine parks to install some sort of
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succession plan in place so that they have a way to, um, leave behind, uh,
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the knowledge when someone retires.
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And I, I believe strongly about taking someone under your wing
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and training them along the way.
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Yeah, makes sense.
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You know, I'm, I'm, uh, you know, personally I've gone the
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moving around route, you know?
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I figured what I don't know, I don't know, so go somewhere new and, and find
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new systems and, and solve new problems.
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And along with that, like you say, comes new chances to, to move up and to become
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a supervisor or a manager or a director.
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You know, our guest today is one of these movers.
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You know, he's, he's worked in several places.
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He's had different staffs coming and going, different bosses,
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lots of different equipment.
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So Alex Hunter, director of Life Support at the Aquarium of the
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Boardwalk, welcome to Inflow.
00:03:34
Hey guys, happy to be here.
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Well, it's a long time coming.
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Spoiler alert, I've known Alex for a long time and, uh, and I've always
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wanted to get him o- on the podcast 'cause I know he has a, a lot to share.
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So, so let's just start.
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Like, how did you get into LSS?
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Man, well, it was just, uh, just happenstance.
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I was, uh, going to school, going to school at the University of Akron.
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I'm from Northeast Ohio originally.
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And I answered an ad in the newspaper, you know, way back in the day, that's
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the way you used to do that, that's how you found jobs was through the
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newspaper, for a diver at SeaWorld.
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And I happened to be a certified scuba diver And so I, uh, answered
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that ad and they hired me 'cause there's not too many, uh, scuba
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divers in Northeast Ohio back then.
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Yeah, and tha- and that's where I started.
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Gosh, I think that was 1987, something like that.
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Yeah, started out as a scuba diver, worked as a scuba diver
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for a couple years, and then got promoted to life support technician.
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So who was there?
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I mean, was there anybody there at SeaWorld Ohio back then
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that, that sort of, like Jeff says, took you under his wing?
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And, and how, how'd you learn the life support part of it?
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Yeah.
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Well, of course Brian Oblisk was there, and I actually, he got
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promoted from diver to life support tech, and I took his position as
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diver, and that's how that started.
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So he kinda showed me the ropes as far as the diver role and what I needed to
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do there and what that, that looked like.
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And then he s- that progression followed, like eventually he was promoted to
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life support supervisor, and then I took his position as life support tech.
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So yeah, I mean, I suppose Brian's kinda my guy, man.
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He was always my mentor for those first years, and, uh, yeah, he'd be
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the one that kinda got me started.
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Yeah, so, you know, just to, just to go back a little bit, so Brian Oblisk,
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um, I know good friend of Alex's, and a good friend of, of all of ours really.
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I knew Brian at the very beginning of also with Alex actually, and,
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um, Brian passed away recently, which was a super sad thing.
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And, um, I got a chance to, to see Brian over the years, and what a
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knowledgeable guy and fun guy, right Alex?
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Yeah, absolutely, man.
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I mean, he is just, he was such a down-to-earth guy,
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you know, super approachable.
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And yeah, I mean, brilliant guy and, uh, yeah, a lot of fun to be around too.
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Yeah, let me just add my comment on that, and that, yeah, Brian
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was wonderful to be around.
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He was, uh, his knowledge was infectious, and, uh, certainly
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enjoyed all the interaction.
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And but Alex, you point out a very good point here, and that is mentorship.
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You had mentors along the way to guide you up the career ladder.
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Yeah, and which is interesting is I'm sure you're a mentor now, Alex.
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I mean, you have had staffs of people that are l- doing life
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support for the first time, right?
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And you get a chance to teach them.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, and that's actually really, really rewarding to be able to do that.
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Yeah, so from SeaWorld of Ohio, you know, moved on to Mirage Dolphin Habitat and
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then Shark Reef Aquarium at Mandalay Bay.
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Um, you know, Shark Reef Aquarium I had a fairly sizable team, and that was
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really my first experience managing a bigger team of, of life support techs.
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And, uh, yeah, it's, it's a lot to take on, and, uh, but it can be,
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it can be really rewarding as well.
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But what prompted you to go from Ohio to Las Vegas?
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I mean, besides your huge gambling problem.
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Well, there was the gambling addiction, which- … I've
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kicked, thanks, thank goodness.
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Yes.
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Um, but no, Ohio, I mean, I was, I was there for a while.
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It was great experience, but the guys that were ahead of me, you know, the
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leads, supervisors- Mm-hmm … um, those guys were pretty much lifers, you know.
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They, they weren't going anywhere.
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They were pretty well parked in their jobs, and, and that's fine, you know.
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Definitely don't blame them for that.
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But I, uh, you know, it be- became clear that if I was going to progress, I
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needed to move on and go somewhere else.
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And, uh, I became aware of a position that was gonna be available
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at the Mirage Dolphin Habitat.
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I knew Stuart McDaniel, um, who was there at the time, and I
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knew he was gonna be leaving.
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So I got in communication with those people there and, uh, was
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able to get hired on at The Mirage shortly after Stuart left, and
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that was a big move, you know?
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But, uh, it was a move where I was able to jump from tech to supervisor,
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and that, that's just kinda what it took, that big move across country.
00:08:33
Yeah, th- that's, uh, that's interesting.
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I, I find that to be a, a common theme because I feel like in the aquarium, zoo,
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even life support world, people do what they do because they really love it, and
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many times they love it so much they're not going to go to another facility.
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So they, they are there, th- they're set, they know their system very well, they
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know their equipment, and, um, sometimes you just gotta go somewhere else to move
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up and, and, um, and learn new things.
00:09:08
Yeah, absolutely.
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And, you know, learning the new equipment, that's a huge part of it, right?
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Suddenly you're dealing with a, a new system, brand new system that you've
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never worked with before, and, uh, you know, you've gotta learn that.
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So it's, it's very stimulating as well, a- and kind of refreshing to
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throw yourself into a new situation with a new system and a new team.
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Yeah.
00:09:29
To that point, Alex, you bring up new systems, new processes,
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new ways of thinking, new creative solutions to problems.
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You may have never worked with a drum filter before or a fractionator, and, uh,
00:09:44
it-- let alone injecting ozone into one.
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A- and so a lot of that worldview of LSS happens when you move around.
00:09:55
Do you think that's true?
00:09:58
Oh, absolutely.
00:09:59
Absolutely.
00:10:00
You know, you can't, you can't live in your own bubble really for very long.
00:10:04
You need to, you need to break out and experience other things, um, new systems,
00:10:08
new teams, new equipment, you know?
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And, and it helps you keep up with, uh, the state of the art and what's going on
00:10:15
in, in the field technologically-wise.
00:10:18
Yeah.
00:10:18
So, so you're, you're at Ohio, you go to The Mirage, then what prompted
00:10:24
you to go to, to Mandalay Bay?
00:10:26
Um, we knew that, well, Mandalay Bay had opened while I was there, and we
00:10:32
knew there was gonna be an aquarium component to that resort property.
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And so we all just kind of like had our ears out, uh, those of us that
00:10:40
were working at The Mirage at the time.
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And Jack Jewell, who was the supervisor at The Mirage, the aquarium supervisor
00:10:48
at The Mirage at the time, ended up moving down to, uh, to Mandalay Bay,
00:10:53
to Shark Reef when it opened up.
00:10:55
And he, uh- Mm
00:10:57
he was able to help facilitate bringing me along down there as
00:11:02
life support supervisor at the time, and then eventually got
00:11:05
promoted to life support manager.
00:11:08
So that, that's kind of how that progression worked.
00:11:11
You know, Shark Reef was a, an aquarium system, you know.
00:11:15
So The Mirage was, for me in my role at The Mirage, you know, it was at
00:11:19
the dolphin habitat, which was a large mammal system, you know, two and a
00:11:23
half million gallon mammal system.
00:11:25
Um, whereas the Shark Reef Aquarium was gonna be, uh, a fish-only aquarium system.
00:11:30
So a little bit different system, um, different, of course, different animals
00:11:34
and, uh, you know, my first time working with a really large-scale fish aquarium.
00:11:41
This is important because our listeners can relate to this.
00:11:45
W- what did you see, Alex, in transitioning from a
00:11:49
marine mammal, a traditional
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LSS, toward a more fish-centric elasmobranchs?
00:11:58
What-- c- compare and contrast the two.
00:12:05
That's interesting.
00:12:06
Gosh, there's so much that goes into that question.
00:12:08
I, uh, I really, I've always said I kind of love mammal systems because in a way
00:12:13
they're a little bit simpler to operate.
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They're not quite as complex, not quite as many factors
00:12:20
biologically that are going on.
00:12:22
Some of those things get eliminated with, with mammal
00:12:25
systems and disinfection systems.
00:12:28
But- Early on in my career, it wa- it was funny, back in Ohio, uh, when
00:12:33
I was a life support tech there, I started to keep a, a, an aquarium at
00:12:39
home, and it started off with a small saltwater aquarium, and that was my
00:12:42
first time ever keeping a, an aquarium.
00:12:45
And I can remember like the other life support technicians giving me a hard
00:12:49
time about it, you know, going, "Oh, you wanna go be an aquarist?" Uh, you
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know, and I'm like, "No, you jerks.
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I wanna learn more about what we're doing." Right.
00:12:58
Understand, understand it better, right?
00:13:00
And then of course, when I was at The Mirage, um, I mean, there were aquariums
00:13:03
at The Mirage, you know, and I had some time to work with those as well.
00:13:07
You know, so I mean, I kind of developed my chops a little bit on my own- Mm
00:13:10
… with aquarium keeping and done the, the learning and some research on my own, and,
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uh, I mean, that, that's a part of it too.
00:13:18
You gotta be willing to spend the time to, to learn outside of work.
00:13:23
Sure.
00:13:23
And, and so Alex, were you involved in the startup of Mandalay Bay?
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Were you there from the very beginning?
00:13:30
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:31
Oh, okay.
00:13:32
Um, I was there from, uh, the end of construction of that facility,
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and then startup and commissioning of the life support systems.
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So did you hire the staff there?
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Actually, I was brought in as supervisor, and my manager, Marco,
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um, at the time, he's, he's the one who, who kind of hired the staff.
00:13:51
He had an interesting technique for hiring.
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I think he pretty much hired the first 10 people that were in the door.
00:13:58
So we, uh, we had quite a crew way back in the beginning, man.
00:14:02
It was, it was a real group of characters.
00:14:05
How much time before opening day was the staff in place?
00:14:10
Before opening day?
00:14:12
Interesting.
00:14:13
Not long.
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I mean, we had a couple key positions in place.
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Uh, my position, uh, Marco of course was there, and couple life support
00:14:25
techs And we ran like that for probably three months before opening.
00:14:32
By the time we opened, we had, I would say, you know, 70% of our
00:14:37
team together, life support team, um, as far as the technicians go.
00:14:42
So I think pretty typical back then.
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I feel like now people are understanding to get the staff on board earlier
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and earlier so they can run the systems, they can see the systems,
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they can get them biologically active, they can get their chops, you know,
00:15:02
develop their chops on the, on the equipment so it's not just like
00:15:07
thrown into the lion's den on day one.
00:15:10
Yeah.
00:15:10
Not to, not to mention, Joe, real quick, uh, is that the
00:15:13
animals may be there already.
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So before opening day, you've got a full complement of species present,
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and you need to have not only the aquarist, but the life support
00:15:24
operators in place because you have life to protect and, um, observe.
00:15:31
Exactly.
00:15:32
Yeah.
00:15:33
So you're there, so how long were you at, at Mandalay Bay?
00:15:38
Oh man, I don't know.
00:15:39
I lost track.
00:15:40
That's, those are an awful lot of years to keep track of.
00:15:43
Um- Okay.
00:15:43
Yeah, I mean, six, 60 s- 60, 70 years, that's a long time.
00:15:47
That's a long time, man.
00:15:49
Man, my gosh, I was at, I was at Mandalay Bay for 22 years, something like that.
00:15:55
Okay.
00:15:55
Yeah.
00:15:56
And man, Mandalay Bay was a great experience.
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Um, that's, that Shark Reef is a great facility.
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1.3 million gallon main exhibit, main, uh, main shark tank.
00:16:08
Fun facility to work at, really great team of people.
00:16:11
Fun experience in Las Vegas as well.
00:16:14
But you must have seen some turnover there, right?
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So you had, were you that guy now in your career that wasn't going
00:16:21
anywhere, and your LSS staff was realizing that, and were they
00:16:25
trying to move to the next place?
00:16:27
Yeah, pretty much.
00:16:28
Um- Yeah … yeah, the, the tables kind of flipped there.
00:16:31
Yeah, I mean, there, there, there was a lot of turnover.
00:16:34
You know?
00:16:34
It's, it's kinda like there would be staff turnover, and then every
00:16:39
now and then there'd be like one or two guys that would kinda stick.
00:16:43
Right.
00:16:43
You know?
00:16:43
And they'd work their way up from the off shifts to the more desirable
00:16:48
shifts, to the day shift, and you kind of built a little bit more
00:16:51
stable team like that over the years.
00:16:54
Alex, one challenge I've experienced in my career is that, you know,
00:16:58
we tend to train people up, right?
00:17:01
And we, we invest in people, and then they go get a job somewhere else.
00:17:07
How do you reconcile that?
00:17:10
And, and I mean, you're obviously training people to be better and, and
00:17:15
excellent operators, but how do you try to deal with that movement around
00:17:22
and, "Oh, well now I know everything, I'm gonna go somewhere else"?
00:17:27
Yeah.
00:17:27
Um, that, that's a tough one.
00:17:29
Um, it's tough to invest that time in, in, into somebody and then see them go.
00:17:34
But I mean, to a certain extent, I kind of feel like that's part of my legacy, right?
00:17:38
You know, these people that I'm training, um, that are moving on to
00:17:42
other facilities, you know, hopefully will, you know, look back on that someday
00:17:47
when they're, when they're speaking with their peers and say, "Yeah, you know,
00:17:50
I, I worked with Alex Hunter and he was not too big of a jerk to work for."
00:17:54
So, um, that was a fun experience for me.
00:17:56
Um- I, I, I think that's asking too much though, Alex.
00:18:00
You think so?
00:18:00
I might, I might… Yeah.
00:18:02
I know.
00:18:02
Th- th- they're definitely gonna think you're a jerk, but, but,
00:18:06
but, but but I would say that you can't not train somebody, right?
00:18:12
You have to kinda, you just have to believe that you're gonna bring them
00:18:18
along, and they're gonna learn, and they're gonna give to your facility.
00:18:23
And when it's time to go to a new place, you know, like more power to
00:18:28
you and, and, uh, wish you the best.
00:18:32
Yeah.
00:18:32
Ab- absolutely.
00:18:33
Um, I mean, it's just part of it, right?
00:18:35
It's just, it's just the cycle of things.
00:18:37
You know, and, and I continue to look at that and evaluate it.
00:18:40
The position that I'm in now, you know, I'm at a smaller
00:18:42
facility and a smaller team.
00:18:46
I'm hiring somebody right now, or, or I have a position open right now.
00:18:50
I'm hoping to hire somebody soon.
00:18:52
Shout out to all you life support techs out there that are looking
00:18:54
for a job, give me a call.
00:18:55
Yes.
00:18:56
Yes.
00:18:58
And, uh, to that point, I was on the AZA job site today, and sure enough,
00:19:02
and the also site, and sure enough, Alex's job is open and available.
00:19:07
Aquarium of the Boardwalk, let's talk about that for a minute, Alex.
00:19:13
Um, you've got, as I understand it from our prior conversation,
00:19:19
you've got a temperate and a tropical, uh, reef style aquarium.
00:19:25
Can you, can you go into some detail on those systems?
00:19:29
Yeah, our aquarium is kind of split up into two big systems,
00:19:33
um, one temperate, one tropical.
00:19:36
The temperate system is much smaller.
00:19:38
The tropical system is kind of the makes up the bulk of the aquarium facility.
00:19:42
And both of those systems flow, um, as a loop that circulates
00:19:47
throughout the building.
00:19:48
So we have a main sump, each of those systems has a main sump that water
00:19:53
is pumped out of, and then that gets pumped up to degas towers, various
00:19:58
degas towers throughout the building.
00:20:01
Uh, and then everything gravity feeds back down to the, to the sump,
00:20:04
back down through the filtration.
00:20:06
So it'll go to degas, down to the exhibits.
00:20:10
It'll gravity feed out of the exhibits to a collection trough, um, where
00:20:16
it flows through our drum filters being our primary means of mechanical
00:20:19
filtration, and then down into the sump to, to start that cycle over again.
00:20:25
And then we do have a, a, a side stream for foam fractionation as well.
00:20:29
And, uh, foam fractionation with ozone injection and- Yeah … the-
00:20:35
Yes … and no sand filters.
00:20:37
I want to be clear about that.
00:20:38
The drum filter- We- The drum filters?
00:20:40
Yeah, primarily drum filters.
00:20:43
Uh, we do have some sand filters that just kind of recirculate the
00:20:46
sump, and they do kind of act as pre-filters for our heat exchangers.
00:20:52
You know, so we do have, uh, some sand filters there, you know, a little bit of,
00:20:55
of extra biological filtration built in there as well to, for added stability.
00:21:01
But yeah, this was my first time working with drum filters, uh, which I thought
00:21:06
would be cool, kind of a new challenge.
00:21:08
You know, I'm definitely an old school sand filter guy, and
00:21:12
that's the only way kind of thing.
00:21:14
So this has been a learning experience, and they're, they're slowly starting
00:21:18
to win me over, I'd have to say.
00:21:20
Okay.
00:21:21
So there, there, there's really a lot to uncover here, and I really like this.
00:21:24
I like- my dream for this podcast is to get somebody interesting on,
00:21:31
talk about their history, and then get into the specifics of their
00:21:35
systems and what make them unique, and your systems are very unique.
00:21:39
Let, let me just go over this for our listeners.
00:21:41
So you are pumping from a sump, you are pumping up to a degas tower, then
00:21:46
the water is by gravity going into the exhibit, by gravity going into the drum
00:21:54
filters, and then dumping into the sump.
00:21:56
Is that correct?
00:21:57
Yes, correct.
00:21:58
O- okay.
00:21:59
So, so this is unique.
00:22:00
My first question is, as an engineer, when you have a power failure, how do you
00:22:06
keep your water from flowing from your huge exhibits, gravity feeding all the
00:22:11
way down into the sump and overflowing it?
00:22:13
What happens there?
00:22:15
You have a whole bunch of people on standby with squeegees Yeah.
00:22:20
I love it.
00:22:21
I love it.
00:22:21
Yeah.
00:22:21
That's, that's true engineering- Yeah, yeah … if you want a answer.
00:22:24
No, that's it.
00:22:25
Well, you, you've, you've struck on a, uh, a little bit of a, a vulnerability there.
00:22:32
That's exactly what does happen when, when we do have a power bump and, and pumps
00:22:36
shut down or we lose power completely.
00:22:39
Um, yeah, that's, that's exactly what happens.
00:22:41
Everything just kind of comes flowing down to us to the main filtration
00:22:44
room, and oftentimes we do end up, you know, losing water and putting water
00:22:49
on the floor as a result It can vary.
00:22:53
You know, it depends on how full we're running that main sump.
00:22:57
If we keep that running pretty low, then we have a little bit more capacity
00:23:00
to catch that water coming down.
00:23:02
But a lot of times, honestly, we like to kind of run it pretty full to keep
00:23:06
that, that, those pumps working a little bit easier that are pu- that
00:23:10
are drawing that water out of that sump and pumping it up to the degas towers.
00:23:14
So yeah, it depends.
00:23:16
Certain times of the year, like springtime, springtime's our stormy season
00:23:20
here in the Midwest, and we get lots of thunderstorms, the occasional tornado.
00:23:24
During those times when we know the weather's gonna be bad, yeah, we'll
00:23:27
run that sump pretty low so, uh, we make sure that we're not gonna lose
00:23:31
too much water if we lose power.
00:23:33
So actually, the engineering thing here is it was designed with large sumps that
00:23:37
can take the bulk of the exhibit, right?
00:23:39
So it's, it's, it, that's the way it was designed.
00:23:43
Yeah.
00:23:43
Yeah.
00:23:44
I mean, it's, I think that's the, the takeaway from that type of a design
00:23:48
is that, yeah, you know, you wanna make sure you have a big enough sump
00:23:51
to, uh, to handle all that freeboard when it starts coming down on you.
00:23:55
I, I wish ours was a bit bigger, but you know, it's, uh, it's all right.
00:23:59
We make it work.
00:24:00
Do you have a, an emergency power generation system whereby you can get
00:24:05
that kicked on in, in a matter of minutes?
00:24:08
Yeah.
00:24:09
Yeah, we have a, a backup diesel generator, um, that kicks on right away.
00:24:14
It'll run about, mm, 65% of our filtration system for us.
00:24:18
So we, uh, having a small staff, uh, we don't have people here 24 hours
00:24:23
a day, so we do have to be on call.
00:24:27
But we have a really comprehensive control system, and we can access that
00:24:31
control system remotely from home.
00:24:34
So as soon as we start getting those alarms that lets us know that, you know,
00:24:38
we had a power bump, we're logging into that control system from home and looking
00:24:43
at what's going on, and we can start pumps remotely if we need to, kind of as
00:24:47
a damage control thing, just to get some water circulating before we can actually
00:24:52
get in there to respond on property.
00:24:54
Yeah, so that's, so there you have it.
00:24:56
So I mean, really when you have systems like this w- that where
00:24:59
the water can come back to the sump, you have several options.
00:25:03
One being emergency power to kick those pumps on, which is what you got.
00:25:08
Sometimes you have a valve that closes at a power failure to keep the water- Mm-hmm
00:25:14
in the pool, right?
00:25:15
Yeah.
00:25:15
Or you could have the piping have a high point in the piping to where
00:25:19
when the, when the power goes off and the pumps stop, you know, y-
00:25:24
your water stays in the pool because it's gotta go up and over by gravity,
00:25:28
you know, up and over a high point.
00:25:29
So you got it covered.
00:25:32
Yeah.
00:25:32
Yeah.
00:25:33
And most of our exhibits kind of have an upflow to them.
00:25:36
Water comes in the side or the bottom, sometimes through a plenum, a reverse
00:25:40
flow under gravel filter, and then overflows a, a surface skimmer, right?
00:25:46
So again, if we lose power, you're gonna lose that freeboard, um, that's
00:25:50
going over the surface skimmer, but the water's gonna stay in the exhibits
00:25:54
and, and you're not gonna lose that.
00:25:55
Exactly.
00:25:56
And so you have a substrate, uh, made up of, I don't know, crushed
00:26:02
coral or something- Yeah … that water upflows through that from
00:26:07
the degas tower, let's say, right?
00:26:10
A- and, and that delivers water through the undergravel or the crushed coral.
00:26:17
Uh, and of course, there's, there's a biofilter there as well.
00:26:21
Yeah, exactly.
00:26:23
And that's a pretty robust system as far as biological filtration goes.
00:26:28
So you have basically two of these large systems, two sumps, and two series of,
00:26:36
of drum filters, and two degas towers.
00:26:40
There's basically two large systems that feed the two
00:26:45
parts of your aquarium, right?
00:26:47
Yeah, exactly.
00:26:48
Okay.
00:26:48
And then you say, you say you have sand filters sort of on the,
00:26:53
the recirc of the sump itself.
00:26:55
Is that right?
00:26:56
Yes, correct.
00:26:57
Okay.
00:26:58
And fractionators on a recirc of the sump as well?
00:27:02
Fractionators kind of side stream, so, um, on the bigger exhibits, the surface
00:27:07
skimmers are partitioned, and part of that water will go back to the drum trough.
00:27:12
Um, and part of that water goes side streams through
00:27:15
the, the fractionator loop.
00:27:18
Okay.
00:27:18
Makes sense.
00:27:18
And the fractionators are all ozone fractionators?
00:27:21
Yeah.
00:27:22
So, so no- Yeah, and then- Go ahead … eventually they, eventually
00:27:25
they return back to the drum trough as well to receive that water And
00:27:28
no, no ozone contact towers per se?
00:27:33
No.
00:27:34
Okay.
00:27:35
So this is, this is a, this is an interesting design.
00:27:38
A- and to that point, Alex, um, on your drum filters, what is the, the
00:27:43
micron screen size that you have there?
00:27:47
Uh, we're running a 30 micron screen, which, you know, I mean,
00:27:51
that's, that's a fairly small size.
00:27:53
I, I, I have to admit, man, I really like to brag, um, as far as water clarity goes.
00:27:58
Man, I think we have some of the best water clarity in, in the country really.
00:28:02
I'm very impr- I was very impressed with, with it when I first walked in the door.
00:28:07
And we, we also have a real heavy stocking density of animals too, so, uh, I'm
00:28:12
surprised at, at, uh, how well we're able to keep the water clarity-wise.
00:28:18
So being a, an old school SeaWorld guy, sand filter guy, give us
00:28:25
your take on the drum filters.
00:28:26
I mean, are they maintenance friendly?
00:28:29
Do they spray down a lot?
00:28:33
Do you… I've-- Do you find any clogging in, like, the drain piping of, of the dr-
00:28:40
Like, what kind of stuff do they remove?
00:28:43
Yeah.
00:28:43
So it's been an interesting experience.
00:28:45
Like I said, this was my first time working with them and, and I remember
00:28:49
walking in the door the first time and looking at them and I was like,
00:28:52
"All right. Let's give these a try." Um, but, uh, yeah, they're- It's
00:28:59
taken a while to warm up to them.
00:29:01
They do require some maintenance, you know, they're not just a hands-off device
00:29:05
that's just gonna sit there and run.
00:29:08
We find that occasionally you need to open them up and give them a little bit
00:29:13
of assistance with a pressure washer.
00:29:15
So the way, the way a drum, real quick, the way a drum filter works is typically
00:29:20
water flows through the center of this cylinder where you have the filtration
00:29:25
screens, those 30 micron screens, and then water flow, gravity flows through those
00:29:32
screens to a clean trough and then out the backside, in our case, to our sump.
00:29:38
As that screen gets dirty inside that drum filter, that drum will rotate and a
00:29:43
series of sprayers will kick on to spray that, those screens and wash the, the
00:29:50
dirt that's accumulated into a collection trough that goes to the sanitary sewer.
00:29:56
And what we find is that every now and then that's ju- that
00:30:00
it just needs a little help.
00:30:01
So we'll get in there with like a regular, like a Karcher pressure washer and kind of
00:30:06
like spray down the screens and, and just get them cleaned up a little bit better.
00:30:10
Yeah.
00:30:10
So this is analogous to a backwashing sand filter, right?
00:30:15
Yeah.
00:30:15
A- and so from a water usage standpoint, I mean, it's gotta be sustainable, right?
00:30:22
I'm sure I knew what, know what the statistic was for how many gallons
00:30:26
are used each time one of those drums rotates, but, uh, it escapes me right now.
00:30:30
But it's, it's minor.
00:30:31
I mean, you know, we're talking a gallon or two maybe each
00:30:35
time the, those drums cycle.
00:30:38
And when they're, when we have them tuned well and they're running
00:30:41
well, um, they typically only wash down about once every other hour.
00:30:47
You know, so 12 times a day, we're using, whatever, 24 gallons of water in a day.
00:30:52
That's not too bad.
00:30:54
Wow, that's, that's not washing down that much, especially you have
00:30:57
a heavily stocked system, correct?
00:31:00
Yeah.
00:31:01
Yeah.
00:31:02
Um- Now that's when they're kind of running at their peak.
00:31:06
They, like I said, they do re- require a little bit of, of fiddling.
00:31:11
You can adjust the water level within the drum that, and that
00:31:14
affects the, the drum various ways.
00:31:16
You, you kind of got to keep tinkering with them.
00:31:19
The problem is, is that once they get … Once something kind of
00:31:23
goes sideways with them, you can, one of two things can happen.
00:31:27
Mm. Um, one, they can spray down excessively, and in that case, you
00:31:32
end up with a lot of like over-spray going on in the drum filter, and you
00:31:37
can actually start to dilute your salinity level in your system- Mm
00:31:42
um, if that gets out of control and just runs away unchecked.
00:31:46
The other side of that is that if the drum continues to rotate but doesn't wash down,
00:31:52
if there's some sort of malfunction in the system or the logic where the drum's not
00:31:57
washing down, that drum will just continue to spin and spin and spin, and in that
00:32:02
case, it kind of acts like a water wheel, and it just picks up water and then dumps
00:32:07
it down that collection trough- Right
00:32:10
where all, where all the dirt and debris is supposed to go, and that goes to
00:32:12
the sanitary sewer, and then you end up just losing water out of your exhibit.
00:32:17
So, and those, each of those things, you know, the, the possibility's there.
00:32:21
We've had both of them happen from time to time.
00:32:23
Yeah, and they're, they can just be, they can be kind of finicky.
00:32:26
This is good conversation about the drum filter technology, which is
00:32:31
moving into the m- mainstream now.
00:32:34
But I want … You have sand filters looping through the sump, and so since
00:32:39
the sump is receiving drum filtered water, what … And you're just, you're using the
00:32:46
sand filter f- as biological filtration.
00:32:50
So what's the backwash frequency on those sand filters?
00:32:54
I, I would imagine you, it's a, it's a long period of
00:32:58
time be- between backwashes?
00:33:01
Yeah.
00:33:01
It, it's pretty infrequent.
00:33:03
Yeah.
00:33:04
Um, I mean, you know, you have your water, water coming through there,
00:33:07
getting filtered to a 30 micron level.
00:33:09
Those sand filters don't work very hard at all.
00:33:13
Yeah.
00:33:13
I mean, it makes sense.
00:33:14
I mean, you're, you're- Yeah
00:33:15
sound- sounds like you're filtering very well.
00:33:18
Yeah.
00:33:19
Yeah.
00:33:19
And so, yeah, the, as far as the drums, getting back to them for a second, like I
00:33:22
said, man, when the- when they're tuned in and they're dialed in, man, they're great.
00:33:26
I really, like I said, I've kind of grown to like them a little bit.
00:33:29
But y- they're, they, they require attention, for sure.
00:33:34
Yeah.
00:33:34
And, and you got to have, you know, one or two techs who, who are dedicated to
00:33:40
spending part of their time just making sure that those things are running okay.
00:33:44
Now, I wa- I wanna go back for a second, Alex.
00:33:46
I, I do wanna come back to your job now.
00:33:49
But so you left, you left Mandalay Bay.
00:33:55
Why did you leave Mandalay Bay after 20-plus years?
00:33:59
Oh, man.
00:34:00
Gosh.
00:34:01
I don't know.
00:34:02
To tell you the truth, my wife and I had, had talked for a long time about,
00:34:07
you know, wanting to kinda get out of the city, get out into the country
00:34:12
somewhere, maybe get closer to home.
00:34:15
Um, like I said, I'm from Ohio, my wife's from Upstate New York.
00:34:20
So that had kinda always been this ongoing conversation that we've had for years.
00:34:25
And, you know, we kinda got to a point where, you know, we'd, we'd had enough
00:34:29
of Las Vegas and, and it was fun, but, uh, you know, we, we'd had plenty of it.
00:34:35
And I just became aware of the, the job opportunity, the manager position at the
00:34:41
time at The Aquarium at the Boardwalk.
00:34:44
And I think somebody had, had mentioned it to me, one of the,
00:34:47
one of the guys that I work with.
00:34:48
They're like, "Hey, have you seen this job?" And, uh, you know, I took
00:34:52
a look at it and texted my wife a couple hours later and I said, "Hey,
00:34:56
you wanna move to Branson?" And she was like, uh, she was all about it, man.
00:35:01
So, uh, it, it was at the very end of the window of opportunity to submit your, your
00:35:08
resume, and like last minute I just kinda like cobbled together this quickie resume
00:35:15
and sent it over to 'em, and, yeah, they were silly enough to let me in the door.
00:35:20
Yeah.
00:35:21
They regret it now, but- Yeah … but I will say this, um, you know, we talk a
00:35:27
lot about professional, you know, moving places for the professional opportunities,
00:35:32
and certainly that's partly true here, but we all have lives, and we have
00:35:37
families, most of us, and we have d- you know, desires to be in certain places.
00:35:45
I mean, sometimes it's just a personal move.
00:35:46
Yeah, and it was.
00:35:47
It was.
00:35:48
You know, I mean, I know a lot of people, especially in this profession,
00:35:51
they wanna be in the cities, in the metro areas, or along the coastline
00:35:56
or, you know, something like that.
00:35:58
So to find a, a weirdo like me that wants to be in the Midwest,
00:36:02
I mean, that's kinda unique.
00:36:04
Um- Yeah … but yeah.
00:36:05
I mean, that was desirable for us.
00:36:07
But, you know, once I saw the aquarium, you know, that
00:36:10
kinda sealed the deal for me.
00:36:12
I was just like, "Yeah, man, this is a really nice facility."
00:36:15
It's a newer facility.
00:36:17
The owners when they built it, they really, they, they
00:36:21
did it right, and I like that.
00:36:23
And, uh, and yeah, and it was some new equipment and new components and a totally
00:36:27
new design for me to work with and learn.
00:36:30
So yeah, I mean, there were, there was something that, uh,
00:36:33
w- was inspiring there as well.
00:36:36
So let's-- Alex, t- speak to, um, infrastructure.
00:36:41
As a facility ages and you have to do capital CapEx planning, uh,
00:36:48
whether that's a rehab or a, a new exhibit, a new habitat, or just
00:36:54
fixing stuff that breaks, how do you approach the capital planning process?
00:37:00
I mean, I, I kind of fall back on, you know, some of my experience that I had.
00:37:04
Like I said, I maintained Shark Reef for 20 years, so that gave me a pretty
00:37:08
good foundation to understand The order in which certain components
00:37:14
were gonna start failing, right?
00:37:16
You know, so I, I was able to look at that, look at our facility, and kind
00:37:20
of start building a plan from there.
00:37:23
And then you also look at deficiencies, right?
00:37:27
Areas of your exis- existing system that, um, can identify
00:37:33
and say, "Hey, you know what?
00:37:34
This isn't quite right, and we probably need to make a modification here to
00:37:40
safeguard from anything bad happening in the future." Uh, one of the projects that
00:37:45
we did here recently was we installed an isolation valve in part of our main
00:37:51
filtration system on, on the tropical system, in an area where I felt that if
00:37:58
we had a catastrophic piping failure, it was gonna completely disable our
00:38:04
entire filtration system for that system.
00:38:07
All of the oth- most of the other areas of, of the filtration, like if
00:38:10
we had a break, there were valves in place that we could isolate and take
00:38:14
a pump offline and keep the system running while we made that repair.
00:38:19
But we had this one pump that just pulled off that main sump, and was kind of a
00:38:25
straight shot up to the main header to the main degas tower, and if we broke
00:38:32
that line for some reason, there was no way to isolate that, and none of
00:38:37
the other pumps were, were gonna be able to keep them running 'cause we'd
00:38:40
be losing water out of that breakage.
00:38:43
I put together a, a capital expense proposal for that, a- and we did
00:38:47
that project just this past fall.
00:38:50
And what, what was that like going to your bosses?
00:38:54
I mean, that's a big project.
00:38:56
That's gonna affect a lot.
00:38:57
Did you have to do some convincing?
00:39:00
Oh, yeah, for sure.
00:39:02
You know, I mean, I, I, I put together a pretty comprehensive proposal, you
00:39:05
know, and basically explained to them what I was seeing, uh, what I thought
00:39:12
the potential problem w- w- could be.
00:39:15
You know, catastrophic piping failures like that are rare,
00:39:18
of course, but I have seen them happen before, and they do happen.
00:39:23
And so I put together this proposal and pitched it to him, you know, and
00:39:27
I just said, "Hey, you know, this is something that may never happen. This…
00:39:32
The… We may run this facility for its entire life existence, and it may never
00:39:36
happen, and we may never have an issue."
00:39:38
But I said, "The day that it does, we are going to be dead in the water,"
00:39:43
pardon the pun- And, you know, the animal collection's gonna suffer.
00:39:47
I said the business is gonna suffer, and it might not be
00:39:51
something you can recover from.
00:39:52
Also, you know, the, the ability to make a quick fix for something like that can
00:39:57
be challenging for us here in Branson.
00:40:00
I know many people have heard of Branson, but Branson's actually a very small town,
00:40:05
and we're, we're kind of off the beaten path, so we don't have a lot of resources
00:40:09
to draw from here in the immediate area.
00:40:12
So you completed this, you got the okay, this project is completed.
00:40:17
Is that right?
00:40:17
Yeah.
00:40:18
And did you do it in-house?
00:40:19
Did you hire a contractor?
00:40:21
Was it… It was probably pretty big piping, right?
00:40:24
Uh, well, it was 10-inch pipe, um- Okay … and it was, uh, about 15, it
00:40:28
was overhead about 15 feet in the air.
00:40:31
You know, it was the type of project that, that would've been challenging,
00:40:34
and I really would've loved to have done it completely in-house.
00:40:37
Yeah.
00:40:37
But, you know, I have a, a team of four people, including myself, and
00:40:42
it was just, it was too much for us to do on our own, so I did hire a
00:40:46
contractor to do the valve installation.
00:40:49
But in the meantime, we had to figure out a way to build a bypass to keep
00:40:55
some circulation going in the system while we made this repair, 'cause
00:40:59
in order to, or not, not to repair, but to install the valve, 'cause to
00:41:03
install this valve, we're actually, like, creating the situation that we're
00:41:07
ultimately trying to avoid, right?
00:41:09
That's right.
00:41:09
You know?
00:41:10
And we had to be down, um, running on this, this improvised bypass for 24
00:41:15
hours while they cut in that valve and glued it in, and we let things cure.
00:41:20
So that was, that was a challenging process in and of itself, just to figure
00:41:24
out how to be able to do the bypass, keep the water circulating through
00:41:30
the system, not let the plenum on the undergravel filter stagnate and create
00:41:36
a whole bunch of anaerobic water that was gonna bite us in the butt when we
00:41:39
c- when, when we tried to start back up, and then keep that all in balance
00:41:43
for a 24-hour period, and run the, run the system essentially manually because
00:41:49
the control system, you know, wasn't gonna be any good to us at that point.
00:41:53
So yeah, we were back to old school manual operations, which of course
00:41:56
I was just, like, happy about.
00:41:59
You're all over it.
00:42:00
Yeah.
00:42:00
You know, yeah, it's, it's very interesting that you say that because
00:42:04
you're basically saying to the higher-ups, you're saying, "If we get
00:42:09
a break in this pipe, we're screwed.
00:42:11
So what, what I wanna do is break this pipe- Exactly.
00:42:14
so I can fix it, so I can fix it," you know?
00:42:17
Exactly.
00:42:18
They say, "Well, that doesn't sound too good." No, and it was, it was- Yeah … it
00:42:21
was a chal- it was a challenging project.
00:42:23
It was, it was- Yeah … it was stressful.
00:42:25
I was definitely, uh, full of anxiety in the weeks leading up to that project,
00:42:30
and I don't think I, I slept for the three days before we started it.
00:42:34
Um- Yeah, I bet.
00:42:35
Yeah So wait, so we gotta start, start to wrap this up, but I want
00:42:40
to, um, I wanna ask a little bit about, uh, you know, you were… You
00:42:45
know, I, I met you a long time ago.
00:42:47
Th- there was a point when you weren't going to the Also so much, and we sort
00:42:50
of lost touch and, and now I've been a chance g- gotten a chance to, to
00:42:54
reconnect with you over the last few years, mostly at Also conferences.
00:42:58
But so what, uh, your… What do you like about Also and have y- I
00:43:04
know last time you came you brought a new employee and, and how… W-
00:43:09
was that a good experience for him?
00:43:12
Yeah.
00:43:13
Yeah, I think it was an amazing experience for him.
00:43:15
Yeah, also, also, I mean, ALSSO's amazing.
00:43:18
Um, it's a, it's a wonderful organization.
00:43:20
Highly encourage anybody who's a part of the life support community,
00:43:26
um, the life support profession to become involved in ALSSO.
00:43:29
You know, I just can't say enough good things about it.
00:43:32
But yeah, Mark, our, our new employee, our newest life support tech here,
00:43:36
attended the ALSSO conference, and he was actually going to attend anyway
00:43:41
before we hired him, but we, uh, we just happened to give him a job offer that he
00:43:45
accepted, uh, like a couple weeks before the start of the, of the symposium.
00:43:50
So man, I think that was a great experience for him.
00:43:53
I mean, like his first initiation to the life support community was the
00:43:58
ALSSO symposium, so it really doesn't get much better than that, you know?
00:44:01
Yeah, that's great.
00:44:02
That's really good.
00:44:03
Wow.
00:44:04
You know, just, just a side note here, I wanna let everybody know a personal
00:44:08
story, but, um, way back when, when ALSSO started and then we, we decided
00:44:14
to try and develop a certification test.
00:44:17
You know, this is the first few years of ALSSO and, and, um, I wanted to do that.
00:44:23
It was important to me and, and I talked with some people at the ALSSO conference
00:44:27
that I knew had a lot of knowledge, and so one of them was Brian Oblisk-
00:44:32
Mm-hmm … um, from Seward, Ohio.
00:44:34
One was Joe Jock.
00:44:35
Yeah.
00:44:36
Joe Jock from, uh, he's at, at Denver Aquarium.
00:44:38
And, uh, another was Alex Hunter.
00:44:42
And so the four of us kinda got together 'cause you guys had a lot
00:44:45
of, like, wastewater experience, and especially Brian Oblisk, he
00:44:49
knew a lot about the certification testing for wastewater treatment
00:44:55
plant, treatment plant operators.
00:44:57
And so I really, we all worked together to create that first test.
00:45:02
And I remember Alex and I were actually grading that very first LSS level one.
00:45:09
Well, there was only a level one test back then, but we- Yeah … had
00:45:12
probably, probably 30 people who took it.
00:45:14
I don't know, 20, 30 people, and you and I grabbed a couple beers and
00:45:17
grabbed the tests and started marking them up and, and, uh, yeah, that was,
00:45:20
that was a very, very fun experience.
00:45:22
Yeah.
00:45:23
Yeah.
00:45:23
That was, that was super cool.
00:45:25
Yeah, that's, uh, definitely something I'm, I'm very proud of,
00:45:28
um, being able to be a part of that.
00:45:30
A- and I think it's something that was critically important to
00:45:34
ALSSO's development way back then.
00:45:37
You know, ALSSO was always a, a, a benefit to the life support community,
00:45:42
but I think it kinda always had this reputation of You know, it'd just be
00:45:46
in a party conference and just a bunch of guys, you know, getting together and
00:45:50
hanging out, drinking beer and whatever.
00:45:52
But that certification testing really, I thought was going to be
00:45:57
something that lended some serious legitimacy to the Also organization.
00:46:03
Alex, real quick on that point.
00:46:05
Um, I, I keep harping on it, career ladder advancement.
00:46:10
I- in your view, what does the certification program at Also, how
00:46:17
does that help operators advance, get promoted, get more money?
00:46:24
Oh, yeah.
00:46:24
I mean, I think it's, I think it's critical for people who are, are getting
00:46:28
into the, the profession, I think it's extremely critical for them to become
00:46:33
a part of also to start a, a track, either life support or water quality
00:46:39
or both, and get those certifications because it does offer some sort of a
00:46:44
gauge for em- employers, um, when they're looking at potential candidates, right?
00:46:50
Um, not just the level one certification.
00:46:53
I mean, that's huge.
00:46:54
That's a good first start, right?
00:46:55
That shows that somebody has the interest and they're taking those first steps.
00:47:00
But man, you, you know, you see an operator that's got their level two,
00:47:03
it's like, all right, that means that person even went a step further, and
00:47:06
they actually went to the effort to attend the symposium, whether it was
00:47:11
sponsored by their company or not.
00:47:13
And yeah, and that, and that starts to mean something.
00:47:15
And then, of course, the level three people are just these crazy brainiacs
00:47:20
who are way smarter than me and probably should have my job, so.
00:47:25
Okay, let's… Well, so, so you sort of answered this already.
00:47:29
I think that one of your answers to this question would be get certified
00:47:33
and go to the ALSO conferences.
00:47:35
But, but just to rephrase my question or rephrase Jeff's question really,
00:47:40
what would be your advice to young operators that are, my goodness,
00:47:44
you got one coming up right now.
00:47:46
You've hired one that's almost- … al- almost brand new.
00:47:49
But what would be your general advice for operators who want
00:47:51
to get into the LSS world?
00:47:54
Get your hands on everything you can.
00:47:56
Learn, uh, as many things as you can.
00:47:59
Uh, one of the great things about working at a small facility is that,
00:48:04
you know, typically they have small teams, and they have to do everything.
00:48:09
I've worked at the big facilities.
00:48:10
You know, you work at SeaWorld, you work at, you know, whatever
00:48:13
facility it is, that, that's huge.
00:48:16
Um, you're probably gonna get pigeonholed into being an operator or being an
00:48:21
ozone tech or being a, a control systems guy, which is great, man.
00:48:25
If that's what you're into, then cool.
00:48:27
That's awesome.
00:48:29
But, um, the nice thing about the smaller facilities is that
00:48:32
you get your hands on everything.
00:48:33
You know, you have to be able to do everything.
00:48:35
If the ozone generator goes down, you have to be able to open up that cabinet
00:48:40
and troubleshoot it and figure it out, pump mechanics, whatever it may be.
00:48:44
Uh, and so that would- I guess would be my advice is don't be afraid to,
00:48:48
to try new things and get your hands on, on new equipment, and that's just
00:48:52
gonna build your skill set and make you more marketable in the future.
00:48:57
And certainly going to different facilities gets your hands on
00:49:00
different kinds of equipment.
00:49:01
Last word, Dr. Jeff?
00:49:03
Yeah.
00:49:03
Be creative, be curious, be flexible, be able to be nimble, to be able to
00:49:10
be mobile, move, and con- continue to challenge yourself I like it.
00:49:18
Well said.
00:49:19
Alex, thanks a bunch.
00:49:22
Thanks, Alex.
00:49:22
Oh, man, thanks for having me, guys.
00:49:23
I really appreciate it.
00:49:24
Thanks, Alex.
00:49:25
It's been great.
00:49:26
Yeah, it was a, a, a long time coming a- and, um, I'm glad
00:49:29
to be back in touch with Alex.
00:49:31
I, I look forward to staying in touch.
00:49:33
So thank you, Alex Hunter.
00:49:35
Thanks to Telchine and MDM for sponsoring the show, and thank
00:49:38
you all for listening to Inflow.
00:49:40
Be sure to subscribe and leave us a review, and don't forget, you
00:49:43
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00:49:47
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